Sabrina Zohar on Why We Chase People Who Don't Want Us, and How to Break the Pattern

High-Level Overview

Jay Shetty welcomes back dating and relationship coach Sabrina Zohar, host of the Sabrina Zohar Show, to discuss her debut book, Why Am I Like This? Her central argument is that most of the painful patterns we repeat in love start very early, often before we can even speak. The nervous system learns what keeps us safe, and as adults we keep reaching for what feels familiar even when it hurts us. Over the conversation, Sabrina and Jay cover familiarity versus safety, the difference between boundaries and walls, people-pleasing, the anxious-avoidant dynamic, chemistry versus compatibility, situationships, and the lonely middle stretch of healing.

The tone is warm, candid, and often emotional. Sabrina speaks plainly and draws heavily on her own life: her relationship with her father, an ex who left her "a shell of a human," her mother's illness, a reconciliation with her brother, and a childhood story she says she had never shared outside the book. Jay mostly asks the questions, adds his own observations, and is openly enthusiastic about her framing. The conversation moves between neuroscience-flavored explanations, personal storytelling, and concrete scripts and questions listeners can use right away.

The Discussion Explores:

• Why familiar feels "right" even when it isn't safe, and how early childhood shapes adult attraction
• Protest behavior, triggers, and two diagnostic questions: How old do I feel? and Where did I learn this from?
• Building boundaries slowly, and how boundaries differ from walls and from control
• Deciding whether a relationship is "enough," including the 80-20 rule and the salary analogy
• The anxious-avoidant dynamic, attachment-style myths, and why diagnosing your date backfires
• Chemistry versus compatibility, the "trauma tingles," and real green flags in early dating
• Why we chase unavailable people, how to get over situationships, and the loneliness of healing
• Self-validation, misused "therapy speak," singlehood scarcity, and falling for potential

Deep Dive into Main Ideas

The Turning Point: "Why Am I Like This?"

Sabrina says she "found myself by bed hopping": she moved from person to person hoping a certain feeling would finally go away. The biggest breakup of her life was with someone who, she realized, felt like her father. He didn't look or talk like him, but she felt the same around him: small, dismissed, and convinced something was wrong with her. After he ended things, she started therapy and kept repeating that it was all her fault. When her therapist repeated it back, Sabrina heard herself say it couldn't have all been her fault. She calls that moment the crack in the armor.

From there she explains repetition compulsion. If home never felt safe, a person who "feels like home" may actually make you feel dismissed or unable to be yourself. She stresses that this applies beyond romance, to bosses and friendships too. Her test for a new partner is not intensity but whether you feel seen, heard, and understood. Using Jay as a hypothetical, she explains that if a partner were cold like her father, her nervous system would think, in effect, I know what to do here. A partner who gives love freely would clash with her core belief that love must be earned, so her body would read it as something being off.

How the First 18 Months Shape Us

Jay asks what happens before language. Sabrina describes the still face experiment, which she says began in the 1970s and has been replicated many times. A mother plays and coos with her baby, then goes expressionless, then reconnects. During the still phase, babies show recognizable attachment responses: some get anxious and throw things to reconnect, some shut down into silence, and some, likely more secure, look around. Her point is that infants are constantly reading eye contact, facial expressions, and attunement. A baby left crying for long stretches learns that the world isn't reliable. She also raises Botox, suggesting that a frozen parental face can make it harder for children to learn what mad, happy, and sad look like.

She insists this is about accountability, not blaming parents. A childhood with no obvious "big T" trauma can still leave marks: a dad who worked constantly, a mom always on the phone. She explains that children process "bottom up," feeling things in the body before forming stories, while adults go "top down" and overthink to avoid intense feelings. Her example is a song from 20 years ago that brings back a feeling even when you can't remember the moment. In her words, "Our brain is designed to keep you safe. It is not designed to help you grow." The brain takes the path of least resistance, and "our tiger has become our cell phone."

Triggers, Protest Behavior, and Two Key Questions

Sabrina's real-life example: early in her relationship with her partner Ryan, she asked to go somewhere and he simply said no and walked out. Her body went into "heat mode," the urge toward protest behavior, which she defines as anything we do to reconnect when we feel connection slipping. Instead, she asked herself how old she felt (about seven) and where she learned this (from her father walking off and leaving her feeling dismissed). When Ryan returned, she told him his "no" had sent her into a tailspin and asked whether he could explain his reasons in the future so she wouldn't create narratives. She says it has never been an issue since.

She defines a trigger as a neutral action or inaction, not necessarily a big event. She suggests replacing "why am I like this?" with "I don't like that I'm doing this," then asking what exactly you don't like, which leads to the root (for example, feeling out of control). She explains that the amygdala fires far faster than the prefrontal cortex, which she says takes about ten times longer to come online. That is why challenging your thoughts takes so much bandwidth. We are neuroplastic, she says, but change comes from making new choices and widening your window of tolerance, not from thinking alone.

Boundaries: Incremental, Flexible, and Not a Wall

When Jay asks how she found the confidence to speak up, Sabrina describes having completely lost herself with her ex. She was 90 pounds at 5'8, didn't know what music, clothes, or food she liked, and says it took nine years to start implementing change. Her key line: Confidence is built after you do something and realize you're okay. Setting boundaries also means accepting the loss of people who benefited from you having none. She recommends going slowly. Her marathon analogy: if you've never walked, don't start with a 10-mile hike. Put one shoe by the door, then the other the next day, then a sock, so your nervous system learns it's safe. She adds that the cool girl or guy" who never says no finishes last, and repeats her mother's advice to love yourself more than the need to be loved by others. Self-love, she says, isn't bubble baths and face masks. It's setting boundaries.

On boundaries versus walls, she says boundaries "keep people in your life," while "A wall keeps people out." Boundaries come from self-trust and should be flexible. If she asks someone not to call after nine and they explain that 9:30 is their only free time, they might agree on Wednesdays. A wall is rigid, fear-driven, and black-and-white. Jay agrees that boundaries are often used as excuses for walls. Sabrina also warns that boundaries can become control. A sentence that starts with "you have to," such as requiring daily texts early in dating, is a demand rather than a statement of what you will do.

Guilt, People-Pleasing, and Deciding What Is Enough

Sabrina says she grew up in a home where setting a boundary could get you hit or yelled at, so she learned that having a need meant she was "too much." Now she sees boundaries as a way to keep the right people. She argues, knowing it upsets people, that people-pleasing can be unintentionally manipulative: saying yes out of fear of what happens if you say no means you're self-abandoning to steer the outcome. Many people stay in relationships for years with partners who won't commit because blaming themselves preserves an illusion of control. If I'm the problem, I can fix it. Her harshest lesson: who you allow in your life shows how much you love yourself.

Her guiding question, from a quote she recently heard: "Is what you're getting enough to grieve what you're not" in the relationship? She calls "the one" a myth ("Disney lied to us") and proposes an 80-20 test. Her salary analogy: if you need $100,000 and accept a $20,000 job, your needs go unmet and resentment builds, even though the employer told you up front all they had was 20. Jay links this to a Gottman study he has read, saying a partner response rate to bids of around 33% points toward divorce while 88% points toward a lasting relationship. Sabrina adds that two people can simply trigger each other and do better with someone else. She also pushes back on myths she hears often: that couples should never fight, and that you can stop dating your partner. Holding someone to who they were at the start, she says, keeps you stuck.

Effort, Timing, and Not Wasting Your Life

To spot inherited patterns, Sabrina asks whether "the pinch" matches "the ouch" and traces feelings back to their earliest memory. Her mother is a lifelong people-pleaser, and Sabrina used to recoil and apologize the same way whenever a man said no. Healing meant going back to her younger self, telling her she's allowed to disappoint people, and apologizing for keeping her quiet. She says self-love simply means not attacking yourself, and describes grieving as a necessary part of moving forward.

Jay describes two relationship types: neither partner trying, or one partner carrying it all. Sabrina hopes the third type, two people both trying, is what they're helping create. She describes Ryan as leaning avoidant. It took three and a half years of his weekly therapy and hypnotherapy before he could stay in the room for hard conversations, and she accepted the rest because she could grieve what she wasn't getting. She says love isn't enough, and that proximity and timing matter more. Her brother's advice stuck with her: would you rather be uncomfortable for six to eight months after a breakup, or for the rest of your life? About the one-sided relationship, she recounts telling a woman at a women's group whose partner refused therapy and screamed at her that carrying the relationship didn't make her a martyr. She calls the idea of "right person, wrong time" a fallacy, because what makes someone right is that they show up at the right time.

This section includes the episode's most emotional moment. Eight years ago, Sabrina's mother went to the doctor with a headache and was found to have six brain aneurysms and two corroded arteries in her neck. Sabrina says she spent that time on her phone trying to get men to like her. Her mother now struggles with memory, and Sabrina puts her phone away whenever they're together. Her message is that time wasted waiting for someone to change can't be recovered. Wanting to fundamentally change someone, she adds, means loving the version you need them to become.

The Anxious-Avoidant Dynamic and Attachment Myths

Jay says understanding this dynamic could solve 70 to 80% of relationship issues. Sabrina's twist is that anxious people are also avoidant: they avoid sitting with their own feelings by seeking reassurance. Avoidant people are deeply anxious underneath and shut down because feelings feel unsafe. Each is drawn to the other: the anxious partner sees confidence, and the avoidant partner sees warmth. Then they trigger each other. Avoidant partners "come back," she explains, because distance from the stimulus gives them space. She calls it hyper-independence and hyper-codependence, two sides of the same coin.

For couples in this pattern, she describes how she and Ryan handle her ADHD spirals and his "offline" moments. He asks whether she wants him to just listen. She checks in when he goes quiet. The anxious partner must learn that "space is not the enemy" and that it's okay to take 20 minutes and a walk. The avoidant partner must learn to stay in the mess without treating it as a threat. Jay notes a study he cites claiming only 2% of people can multitask, yet everyone assumes they're in that 2%, much as everyone assumes they're securely attached. Sabrina's firm advice: never ask a date for their attachment style. People are bad at self-identifying, styles are fluid, and the label makes you hypervigilant. She outlines four styles. Anxious is a low sense of self and high sense of others. Avoidant is a high sense of self and low sense of others. Disorganized is low on both, and she links it to homes with abuse or alcoholism, where the caregiver was a source of both fear and love. The fourth is secure. A question she uses with Ryan is "What did you hear me say?"

Connection vs. Testing, and Chemistry vs. Compatibility

Seeking connection, Sabrina says, means being authentically yourself and seeing whether you click. Testing turns dating into a chess game in which you're never present. She blames phones and on-demand culture for an intolerance of the unknown, admitting she checks restaurant menus in advance. She also claims Gen Z is the first generation not to outperform the previous one mentally. Her mother's reframe: if you knew you'd meet the love of your life in six to eight months, how would you act today? A healthy relationship, she says, is one you know could end at any moment because you choose each other daily. Codependency says I need you. Health says I want you.

She explains that healthy can feel "boring" because it doesn't activate your nervous system. The "trauma tingles" are often just familiarity. Chemistry might mean great sex or a fun night, but not shared morals or ethics. When Ryan called the day after their first date, her first thought was why? She explains that inconsistency around something valuable creates novelty, using the example of a one-of-a-kind book versus one sold for three cents. Still, she doesn't want anyone doing "charity work" with someone who simply happens to be nice.

Green Flags and Early Dating

The distractions are looks, job, popularity, and fun. The real signals are whether you can say no and have it respected, and whether words and actions align. She tells people to stop avoiding big topics on first dates. As a 36-year-old who wants kids, she wouldn't wait four months to ask. She advises pacing: a first date is just to see whether you want a second. Quoting her mother on love bombing (when you start at 100, where else are you going to go?), she warns that "Intensity is not intentional. Just because you're getting attention doesn't mean you're getting intention." Her examples include a date who wanted marriage in two separate homes and a nomadic lifestyle. He later found a happy match, which she says took nothing away from her worth.

On pacing emotional intimacy, she suggests a simple script: this is moving fast for me, can we slow down? When she told Ryan she missed him after three or four dates, he thanked her and explained that he moves slower. Two months later he texted that he missed her. She explains that dopamine comes from anticipation, so constant texting paired with monthly meetups is incongruent: "The math doesn't math."

Not Taking Things Personally

Her method has several steps. First, put space between stimulus and reaction. Then separate facts from the story you added, and ask how old you feel. Citing neuroscientist Jill Bolte Taylor, she says an emotion runs its course in about 90 seconds, but each new thought restarts it. Her exercise: set a three-minute timer, close your eyes, locate the sensation, describe it (one client called it a black spiky ball), and imagine bouncing it. She says everyone she does this with reports that it feels less intense. Her examples include the driver who cuts you off and turns out to be very old, and the unanswered email that was sitting in spam, which she calls a corrective experience for the nervous system. After a breakup, she asks people what they actually miss. Usually it's the fantasy and the feeling of safety, not the person.

Unavailable People, Situationships, and the Lonely Side of Healing

We chase people who don't want us, Sabrina says, hoping their love will heal every old wound and prove a parent wrong. Fantasy fuels limerence, and "hope is a dangerous drug because hope keeps you stuck." She encourages people to accept rejection without self-attack and to accept that staying out of guilt is still a choice. Echoing her mother, she notes that you change when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired. For situationships, her advice is to "take the shine off" and see the person as real: someone who didn't want commitment and kept you dysregulated. Citing Brené Brown, she frames honest rejection as kindness. She also tells people not to be "so arrogant" as to think saying no will ruin someone's life.

Healing can be lonely, she says. It doesn't guarantee that a partner appears, but it helps you leave sooner and be okay alone. She cried writing the book, especially the chapter about her brother, who was sent away for four years when she was a child. After a two-year estrangement, he confronted her about his leaving. She explained that she was never angry that he left, only that he never came back for her. They hugged, cried, and are now close. They even collaborate creatively, and he recently had a baby.

Closure Within, Therapy Speak, Scarcity, and Potential

Sabrina shares for the first time outside the book that she nearly got kidnapped at seven. When she told her parents, her mother called it a dream and her father told her to go back to bed. Since her father won't validate her, she validates herself: she tells her younger self she's proud of her, through meditation and in weekly acupuncture sessions where she cries. "You're not broken," she says. Healing lives in small moments, like choosing a walk over texting someone back.

She warns against using therapy language to dodge accountability, such as "that's just my boundary" or "you triggered me." She recommends asking consent and using "I" statements: how I felt, how it impacted me, and what I need. She cautions against trauma dumping on first dates, because manipulative people can use that information. An ex once told her that one of them clearly loved the other more. To people afraid of staying single, she asks what facts support that fear, notes there are almost nine billion people, and warns that negative beliefs prime your brain's salience network to find proof. She favors "I'll see it when I believe it" and looking for "glimmers" of unconditional love from dogs and friends. Jay observes that friends either support your vulnerability or project their own gaps onto it. Sabrina recalls deciding not to share news of a major brand offer with a new group because they didn't feel safe. Finally: "Potential is a lot sexier than reality." Her mother's line sums it up: you're focused on what if rather than what is.

The Final Five

Sabrina's answers: the best relationship advice is that "A relationship is one giant conversation". The best breakup advice is to take the shine off them. Her three first-date questions are how your last relationship ended and what it taught you about yourself (a test of accountability), how you handle conflict, and how a relationship fits into your life right now. She illustrates the last one with a man who was leaving for eight months to film in Asia. The myth she most wants to bust is that someone who triggers you can't be right for you. Her seven-day habit is to take 60 seconds before responding so your nervous system can regulate.

Conclusion

Sabrina Zohar's message is that the patterns that keep us chasing unavailable people are learned, often before we have words, and can be unlearned through small, repeated choices rather than insight alone. Asking how old you feel and where you learned a reaction, setting boundaries incrementally and flexibly, weighing whether what you get is enough to grieve what you don't, and pausing before reacting all serve one goal: trusting yourself enough to walk away from what doesn't fit. Her honest stories about her father, her mother's illness, and her brother give the episode real emotional weight. Her closing hope is that listeners can say of any relationship that they were good before it and will be good after it, and that who they are is more than enough.

This is a summary of "Sabrina Zohar: How to Stop Chasing People Who Don’t Want You" from On Purpose with Jay Shetty, giving you the GIST so you can decide if you want the REST. Listen to the full episode.