2239 -

High-Level Overview

Derek, the fitness educator behind the More Plates More Dates YouTube channel, returns to Joe Rogan's show for a long, dense conversation about performance-enhancing drugs, drug testing, hormones and the fight world. Derek brings deep pharmacology knowledge: how USADA's testing reportedly had major gaps, how athletes can beat carbon isotope tests, what drugs like trimetazidine and trenbolone actually do, and why he thinks steroid research stalled decades ago. Rogan brings his decades as a UFC commentator, with extended breakdowns of fighters like Yoel Romero, Jon Jones, Tom Aspinall and Alex Pereira, plus a candid account of the injury his archery obsession caused and what finally fixed it.

The tone is conversational, nerdy and frequently funny, moving between clinical detail and fight-fan enthusiasm. The first stretch covers the internet's darker corners and OnlyFans economics; the heart of the episode is doping, supplements and recovery; later segments range into gender eligibility in sport, COVID policy, drug laws, limb-lengthening surgery, bodybuilding and Canada's cost of living. It flows loosely from topic to topic, but keeps circling back to one question: what actually works for the human body, and who gets to decide what's allowed.

The Discussion Explores:

• OnlyFans economics, AI girlfriends and the UFC's Power Slap promotion
• WADA's revelations about USADA letting some doping athletes compete as informants, and the gaps in what was tested
• How athletes beat drug tests: microdosed EPO, "CIR-proof" testosterone, retroactive testing and blood doping
• Rogan's archery-induced back injury and his recovery with stem cells, peptides and electrical muscle stimulation (NuFit)
• Supplements and diet: higher-dose creatine, protein, meat-heavy eating, and hormone replacement for men and women
• Fight talk: Yoel Romero, Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall, Alex Pereira's power, pound-for-pound rankings, and brain trauma
• Gender eligibility in boxing, trans athletes, COVID findings, and drug policy
• Trenbolone, steroid scheduling, bodybuilding extremes, limb-lengthening surgery, and why Derek feels stuck in Canada

Deep Dive into Main Ideas

Algorithms, OnlyFans, and Power Slap

The episode opens with news of the UnitedHealthcare executive's shooting and a riff on how their Instagram feeds have become flooded with violent videos. Talk turns to OnlyFans: Rogan's view is that he doesn't want to tell anyone what to do, but that successful creators become addicted to enormous incomes, which shrinks their dating pool to men who earn even more and will accept the work. Derek notes that much of the income comes from DMs, many likely handled by chatbots or hired men, and that some big accounts are AI-generated women. Rogan mentions a Google executive's warning that indistinguishable AI girlfriends could create profound loneliness.

They watch an OnlyFans creator smash a Lamborghini window to promote a McLaren giveaway for Power Slap. Rogan says he'd never advise anyone to do slap fighting: "The whole idea is the skill," and slapping is the opposite of hitting without getting hit. They then watch a 47-year-old Yoel Romero, now around 220 to 225 pounds, dismantle a slap fighter in a boxing exhibition. Rogan calls Romero "the freak of all freaks," noting he entered the UFC at 36 with a fully fused neck and still knocked people out at 40.

USADA's Scandal and the Holes in Testing

Derek walks through a WADA press release alleging USADA allowed at least three athletes who had committed serious doping violations to keep competing for years while acting as undercover informants, even at the Olympic level, and asked WADA not to publish the outcomes. Rogan calls it "so dirty" and contrary to the whole reason the agency exists. Derek says USADA publicly implied the UFC would allow steroids after the split, but the UFC's new provider, Drug Free Sport, has essentially identical rules, and he claims its testing is more thorough, since USADA was rarely doing EPO, growth hormone or isotope ratio testing.

He explains how cheaters stay ahead. Microdosed EPO is hard to catch, and he says recent studies found up to about half of participants on microdose protocols still passed. Synthetic testosterone is made from compounds in wild yams and soy, and carbon isotope testing looks for signatures that differ from what your body makes. Derek says sophisticated labs may be able to produce testosterone that mimics your natural signature, and some athletes pay corrupt labs abroad to pre-test samples. Most sports don't store samples, while the Olympics have since 2004; he cites research by a contact in the testing world suggesting about 75% of Olympic medalists who tested positive were caught retroactively years later. His conclusion: testing usually lags behind the methods used to beat it. Rogan adds that regular sauna use can boost natural EPO, which he believes helped his cardio after injuries.

What's Not Being Caught

Derek highlights trimetazidine, a heart medication that shifts the body toward burning glucose over fat so it uses less oxygen per unit of energy. He notes a group of Chinese swimmers tested positive for it before the Tokyo Olympics, blamed food contamination, and several later competed in Paris, and that a teenage Russian figure skater was also caught with it. They discuss how beta blockers like propranolol can calm nerves for archery or public speaking. Rogan says his doctor offered to get him some for bowhunting, but he declined: managing your own mind is the point, and "I don't want it to be easier."

Derek also mentions cerebrolysin, which he says some fighters use to counter brain damage and which isn't tested for, noting that it's still experimental. Rogan explains why fighters are so vulnerable to head trauma: even light sparring means dozens of subconcussive hits a week for years, the same kind of repeated blows linked to CTE in soccer players, and he believes it drives some fighters toward drugs to feel normal. He cites his friend Mark Gordon's work using hormone therapy to treat veterans with brain injuries that damage the pituitary gland.

How Rogan Hurt His Back, and What Fixed It

Rogan describes his pre-season archery routine: three months of shooting an 84-pound bow about 100 times a day, five or six days a week, from 85 yards, always drawing with the same side. The imbalance caused severe lower back and neck pain, sciatica and numb glutes on hikes. After the season he got stem cell shots, stopped archery, and added stretching, a hard roller from Elite Flexibility, sauna and cold plunge, while continuing peptides like BPC-157 and TB-500, but progress was slow.

The breakthrough, he says, was NuFit, electrical muscle stimulation applied while doing rehabilitation exercises. After about three weeks at four sessions a week, his back pain and sciatica were gone and his mobility returned. He can't isolate which treatment worked, since they likely act together, but he believes the electrical stimulation made a significant difference, noting Mike Tyson used it preparing for the Jake Paul fight. Derek doubts it's a replacement for exercise or a way for veteran lifters to break plateaus, but agrees it makes sense for rehab.

Creatine, Protein, and Hormones

Derek calls creatine "one of the most slept on supplements." He says the standard 5-gram dose may saturate muscle for a smaller person but not for everyone, and some studies found benefits up to about 20 grams a day, including cognitive benefits during sleep deprivation, possibly by supporting energy production in the brain. He suggests trying 10 grams if your stomach tolerates it and notes monohydrate is the best-studied form. Rogan takes six to eight creatine gummies daily and says his diet is over 90% eggs and steak; he meal-preps elk on his Traeger and estimates he eats at least three pounds of meat a day. Derek says vegans can do well but must plan meticulously, since plant protein differs in amino acid profile and bioavailability.

On hormones, Derek argues menopause makes hormone replacement even more important for women than TRT is for men, and that early fear came from a study using synthetic, horse-derived estrogens rather than bioidentical hormones. Rogan says he knows many men who feel dramatically better on TRT and none who have had problems. He also retells how the sugar industry paid scientists roughly $50,000 in today's dollars to shift blame for heart disease onto saturated fat.

Fight Breakdowns: Jones, Aspinall, Pereira

Rogan is excited about a potential Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall fight. He calls Aspinall possibly the fastest heavyweight in history, a 250-pound man who moves like a 175-pounder, while Jones is not a true heavyweight but has the wrestling, jiu-jitsu, reach and ruthless competitiveness that have beaten everyone. They replay Jones's spinning back kick that stopped Stipe Miocic, which Rogan breaks down step by step as a "dance of timing and distance. He's skeptical of media-voted pound-for-pound rankings, arguing that people who have never trained can't fully judge technique; he prefers asking who showed the highest expression of martial arts excellence during their prime," and makes a case for Islam Makhachev in the deep 155-pound division.

He shares that Mark Godbeer told him after Alex Pereira's win that "the sound it makes when he hits them is ungodly," and notes Pereira punched a power-measuring pad at about 190 compared with Francis Ngannou's roughly 127. They discuss the Nate Diaz pressure style, Yoel Romero's explosive bursts, Paulo Costa's slump after being outclassed by Israel Adesanya, Craig Jones's million-dollar CJI jiu-jitsu event, and old tricks like fighters soaking in baby oil or smearing Vicks VapoRub on their chests. Derek describes blood doping as a weight-cutting method: remove blood before weigh-ins, then reinfuse it afterward, which is detectable mainly through abnormal biological passport readings.

Gender Eligibility, COVID, and Drug Laws

On the Olympic women's boxing controversy, Derek explains that if the leaked medical report is accurate, the athlete has a disorder in which internal testes produce male-level testosterone despite a lack of DHT, giving full male muscle and bone development. Rogan supports chromosome testing, which the planned Enhanced Games reportedly intend to use, and argues that the spectrum of male genetic gifts doesn't justify men competing against women. He also argues that "perverts disappeared like the flu during covid," saying society now ignores predatory men who would exploit self-ID policies, while stressing he doesn't care how people dress or live.

They review a House subcommittee report concluding COVID likely came from a lab-related incident, that over $200 billion in relief was lost to fraud, and that lockdowns caused severe harm. Rogan relays a friend's theory that not aspirating during injection may explain some vaccine injuries, and Derek describes tren cough, the coughing fit when an injection hits a vein. Derek claims Joe Biden spearheaded scheduling anabolic steroids after the Ben Johnson scandal, which he believes froze drug development in the 1980s. They also discuss Oregon rolling back drug decriminalization, the ban on the steroid Anavar, and RFK Jr. potentially reforming drug policy. Rogan argues most substances should be legal with education, while Derek notes the risks of unrestricted access.

Trenbolone, Bodybuilding, and the Extremes

Derek describes trenbolone as extremely effective at building strength and preserving muscle during weight cuts without adding water weight, which is why it's used in weight-class sports, but says it can cause night sweats, wrecked sleep, paranoia and aggression in some users. He says the hardest part of steroid use is often psychological: people who start from body-image insecurity struggle when they lose the size. He contrasts Dorian Yates, who is at peace with being smaller, with Ronnie Coleman's physical toll, and explains why women's bodybuilding categories above bikini generally require male-level hormones.

They look at a man who went from six feet to six-foot-six via limb-lengthening surgery, and Derek, who plans to interview him, wonders how athletic mechanics change, and how much online testimonial content is sponsored. Rogan says even gaining muscle throws off fine motor skills, such as his pool game. He also describes David Goggins running thousands of miles on knees with no cartilage, and Alex Berenson's argument that heavy marijuana use can trigger psychosis in vulnerable people. Derek closes by explaining that Canada's exit taxes on unrealized gains make it hard for business owners to leave, and that Vancouver is among the most unaffordable housing markets in the world.

Conclusion

This episode is a deep dive into the chemistry of performance and the flawed systems that police it. Derek's core point is that testing always lags behind the people trying to beat it, and that decades of stigma and scheduling froze research that could have produced safer compounds; as he puts it, "if you're going full board it's impossible to be healthy and safe." Rogan supplies the fighter's-eye view, from the brain damage of routine sparring to the artistry of a perfectly timed spinning back kick, along with a practical recovery story that listeners with overuse injuries may find useful. Along the way there are concrete takeaways on creatine dosing, protein, and hormone replacement, alongside a lot of lively, opinionated tangents.

This is a summary of "2239 -" from The Joe Rogan Experience, giving you the GIST so you can decide if you want the REST. Listen to the full episode.